Fat Steve's Blatherings

Saturday, December 24, 2005

Reply to an Anonymous Commentor


        I reply to an anonymous commentor's remarks on my history of Plamegate, part II.  I find his criticisms of my argument not supported, unfounded, or incorrect, and I invite his reply.

At Length:

        By the way, many of the FBI agents actually working the case speculated or concluded that Iraq was involved. Were they all wrong?

        They also believed the Serbs were involved, and they were all wrong.

        I've never heard that Serbs were suspected. Do you have a citation for evidence on this?

        He ended in Iraq, where he was granted a house, stipend, and asylum till at least 2002. He remains at large.

        This has not been verified, only Dick Cheney cited this intelligence, and given his track record i will wait for more evidence to be shown. It is quite probable that Yasin was put under wraps when he got back to Iraq so the reigme would not be blamed for his attacks. He is most likely dead now, a minor player nothing more.

        Abdul Yasin definitely entered Iraq, in 1993, and he has interviewed there in 2002. The Iraqis could have turned him over to us. They claim they tried to, with the only condition being that we sign a statement that we got him from Iraq, a statement that we absurdly refused to sign — but somehow, they never got around to publishing the statement, which would have forced the hand of the Administration.  And somehow, they didn't tell CBS News, who interviewed Yasin in Baghdad in 2002, 'Here, we'll prove our sincerity.  We will take Yasin to the U.S. embassy in a neutral country and turn him over there, or turn him over here in Baghdad, with no conditions whatsoever.  All we ask in return is that, you, CBS, tape the turnover and broadcast it on television when you broadcast the story you're doing on Yasin.  Feel free to get in touch with your government and find out if they have any conditions about accepting him.' In my arrogant opinion, this sounds more like a guy the Iraqis didn't want talking to us, than one they had no connection with.

        As for the idea that Abdul Rahmin Yasin was "a minor player," you are kidding, right?  Yasin helped make the bomb.  "Ramzi Yousef" met the conspirators at the apartment of Abdul Yasin's brother, Musab Yasin, and it was Abdul who told the FBI where the apartment was that was used to make the bomb.  If that's a minor player, who's a major one?

        It's amazing that even though Iraqi intelligence did not have the capability to engage in long-term planning or ops, even though they could not assassinate former President Bush, couldn't recurit a simple suicide bomber to take out Radio Free Europe, their capacities so severely limited by the first Gulf War . . .

        Making stuff up as you go along is not a good way to argue, Anonymous.  The Iraqis didn't have the capability to engage in long-term planning or ops?  Evidence, please.  They did fail to assassinate Bush Sr.  Whether they could have recruited a suicide bomber to take out Radio Free Europe we don't know, because the guy in charge of the plot, Jabir Salim defected to the West and tipped us off before he had a chance to recruit anyone.  That enabled Czech Intelligence to get on top of the situation, and expel another Iraqi intelligence official.  The expelled other diplomat was Salim's replacement, Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir al Ani, who was reported to have met with Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 hijackers.  Certain people in U.S. intelligence supposedly disputed the idea that Atta could have been in Prague then, because there was no record of him leaving the country, (<sarcasm>We all know terrorists never have more than one set of travel documents at a time, right?  And of course, Immigration and Naturalization has perfect records</sarcasm>), and because his cell phone was definitely in the U.S. at the time (<sarcasm>Well, that settles things.  We definitely know that all the 9/11 terrorists had their cell phones surgically attached to their bodies.  I wonder why we haven't used that fact to arrest more terrorists?</sarcasm>).  Although Newsweek, the Washington Post, and the New York Times all deny that the meeting took place, there assertions are always either based on the statements of anonymous souces, or logically invalid ('Investigators found no evidence such a meeting took place .'  Absence of evidence that X occurred is not evidence that X did not occur).  At last report, the Czechs publicly stood by the story that Atta and al-Ani met.  Iraq issued a non-denial denial in 2002 'The meeting didn't take place, and even if it did, it's not important.'

        . . . yet somehow could create a 'legend' that could attack the US at will.

        I'm not sure what that last phrase means, and would grateful if you'd clarify it, Anonymous (by the way, you really ought to register with Blogger, using a phony name if you'd like, and pick a user handle).  I think what you just asserted is something like, 'The government of Iraq in 2002-2003 was so totally inept, it couldn't have built a truck bomb in secret and driven it into the World Trade Center.  That required the much greater capabilities of Islamist fanatics who had no help from anyone.'  If that is indeed your contention, I'd like to see evidence — especially since Iraq did manage to build a vehicle bomb and drive it into Kuwait in 2003 in the attempt to assassinate Bush Sr.

        This 'legend' was so disciplined that he didn't need orders or directions from Iraq, nor any contact with them at all.

        And your evidence that Ramzi Yousef/Abdul Karim never contacted Iraq is . . . what?  It's known that one of the people in the bomb plot contacted Iraq dozens of times, till his phone service was cancelled.  It's known that phone calls were made from the same number in the U.S. to the same number in Pakistan, the offices of the Saudi Red Crescent, at around the time the shootings took place at the CIA, and around the time the WTC was bombed.  It's knows that, in at least three of the four phone calls, the Saudi Red Crescent offices were closed at the time calls were made.  It's known that in both cases, a terrorist escaped using the same route, Kennedy International to Karachi International to Qetta, Pakistan.  It's known that "Ramzi Yousef" started making overseas calls that appear to be connected with the WTC bombing and his escape starting in December of 2002 (Mylroie documents both here).  So since "Yousef" apparently was in contact with someone concerning the World Trade Center, why can't it have been Iraq?

        Not only that but he remained so loyal to Saddam that even when his 'sponsor' has been defeated, and he sits in jail for 240 years he still will not confess his 'true intentions'.

        So?  Alger Hiss, a soviet spy and member of the American Communist Party, maintained his innocence over nearly forty years, before dying.  Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, who chose to die in the electric chair rather than admit their guilt.  Why should "Yousef" confess to working for Iraq?  It would make Bush's assault on Saddam look justified, link terrorist organizations to al-Qaeda, and otherwise help us.

        And Saddam's loyalists may have other holds on him, for instance, the ability to threaten members of his family with death.  We know what "Yousef" hasn't said, not what he might say if he were telling the whole truth.

        We have KSM, al-Ani, Ramzi, Saddam all in custody and have even tortured some of them.  If Saddam had links to the 1993 WTC attack certainly there would be more evidence in the IIS documents the US has unearthed, or the tortured AQ terrorists would have confessed.

        We don't have transcripts of the interrogations, the IIS documents haven't been published, the CIA and FBI are reported to be uninterested in examining them carefully — again, absence of evidence x took place isn't evidence x didn't take place, suggestive though it is.

        Ramzai Yousef is Abdul Karim--the difference in height could have been from an older document (when Karim was younger).

        Abdul Basit Karim was born in 1968.  In 1986, at age eighteen, he moved to Britain to study.  This is the earliest the document listing his height as 5'8" could have been made.  HIs passport of 1988 lists his height as 5'7".  Karim stayed in Britain till 1989, and was thus 21 when he left there.  His teachers remembered him as 5'6", maybe as much as 5'8".  So far your theory to work, he either had a four to five inch growth spurt that started after age 20, and that was never noticed by anyone who knew him at the time..  I find that difficult to believe.

        That he is a Pakistani Blauchi is concidental.  If he was a Lebanese Shiite does that mean Iran used him?

        No, but it would be suggestive, and worth following up.

        So your theory seems to be: Abdul Karim was a Pakastani born in Kuwait, and he lived in Kuwait and in Great Britain through 1990, when he left for Pakistan.  Between 1988, aged 20, and 1992, he grew four inches.  Although the country was under occupation at the time, the Iraqi occupation authorities conveniently decided to record the fact that he and his whole family had left "the 19th province of Iraq" in 1990, and specified the route and destination in the records.  At the same time, by an incredible coincidence, the Pakistanis were losing all record of Abdul Karim and his family.  In early June, 1992, Muhammed Salameh becomes part of the plot to plant bombs in New York, and begins calling his terrorist uncle in Baghdad.  Somehow, without the Iraqi government being in the least involved, Abdul Yasin hears about this and decides to come to the U.S. to help out — or maybe that was just an incredible coincidence.  Yasin arrives around September, and so does Abdul Karim, traveling under the name "Ramzi Yousef," with an apparently genuine Iraqi passsport that he obtained we don't know how, and an indications that the trip started in Bagdhad, though the Iraqi government knows nothing of him.  Somehow, Karim has found out about the plot to kill the judge, the assemblyman, and random Brooklyn jews, and heads for Musab Yasin's apartment — or alternately, he has no idea, and hooks up with Musab by an incredible coincidence.  The two new arrival from abroad, "Yousef"/Karim and Abdul Yasin, take over the bomb plot, with the youngest as leader, scrap the original idea, and replace it with a a plot to destroy the World Trade Center, carry out the bombing on the second anniverary of the end of the Gulf War, and escape, one of them going to Iraq.  The rest of the plotters are easily apprehended.  The Iraqi government lets Yasin in, and give him sanctury for years.  They also let Abu Nidal, terrorist and murder of Americans, have sanctuary in Iraq, and Abu Abbas, terorist murderer of Leon Klinghoffer.  And they try to assassinate Bush Sr. with a vehicle bomb in 1993.  But they never knew of the World Trade Center plot, no sirree.

        Well, it's a story.  It may be true.  But it seems awfully thin to me.  If you have evidence to support it, I'd be interested in seeing it.

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